Lucy Letby murders: “Ready and willing” Follow up on Bill Kirkup’s comments to the BBC about his experience of witness cooperation with non statutory inquiries

Dr Minh Alexander retired consultant psychiatrist 23 August 2023

I reported on 20 August 2023 on how both Robert Francis and Bill Kirkup initially made remarks to the media which in effect supported the government’s decision to hold only a non statutory inquiry into the Letby killings:

Lucy Letby murders: Robert Francis’ and Bill Kirkup’s messaging supports government’s choice of a non-statutory inquiry

Subsequently, the prime minister hinted that a statutory public inquiry might be held after all if the affected families wished it.

Robert Francis made similar comments.

In the meantime, I followed up on a comment which Bill Kirkup reportedly made to the BBC, published in an article on 19 August 2023:

“Dr Bill Kirkup, who has led non-statutory reviews for other maternity units, said non-compliance had not been a problem in his experience and people were “ready and willing to cooperate”.

I asked Bill Kirkup on 21 August 2023 to reconcile this with information in his report of his investigation into the death of baby Elizabeth Dixon under the care of Frimley Health NHS Foundation Trust. In this report, Kirkup had reported that several significant witnesses had failed to cooperate with his investigation, and he invited their professional regulators to take a view on this.

Kirkup replied to me on the same day, confirming that there had been non cooperation by some witnesses, but he indicated this did not seriously affect his investigation because alternative sources of information existed. He made the point that out of hundreds of witnesses, only three had ever refused to cooperate with him:

Dear Minh,

Thank you for emailing.

What I said was that non-response was not a problem for investigations in my direct experience.  I’ve known three refusals out of many hundreds of interviewees, but in each case their absence did not hamper the investigation because evidence was readily available from other sources.  The reason that I highlighted the isolated instances of refusal, and notified professional regulators, was simply because of the appalling example that is set to more junior staff when senior staff behave this way.

Each form of inquiry has advantages and disadvantages.  The one that I was referring to in the section you identify was the need for widespread legal representation, with resulting delay and adversarial responses.

Thank you,

Bill Kirkup

On the same day, 21 August 2023, after reviewing Kirkup’s report of his investigation into the failings at Liverpool Community Health NHS Trust (LCH), dubbed by some as “Jeremy Hunt’s Mid Staffs”, there was further evidence of witness non cooperation. Kirkup had mentioned the non cooperation of a “small minority of individuals” in his foreword.

Moreover, four important witnesses, LCH trust directors who had been criticised, were not included in Kirkup’s list of 63 interviewees for the LCH investigation.

I wrote again to Kirkup on 21 August 2023 to seek clarification of whether there were indeed failures of senior witness cooperation at LCH, and to ask about the reason for any such failure.

I have not yet heard from Kirkup.

In the meantime, I discovered a document deposited in parliament which seemed to confirm that key senior witnesses had indeed NOT cooperated with Kirkup’s investigation of Liverpool Community Health NHS Trust.

A letter from Steve Barclay of 20 February 2018, when he was Minister of State for Health, to the heads of NHS regulators (Simon Stevens NHSE, Ian Dalton NHSI and David Behan CQC) stated:

  “The review also revealed that a number of key personnel refused to cooperate with Dr Kirkup, and no executives appear to have been subject to any disciplinary actions.” 

For definitive confirmation, I have asked William Vineall the Department of Health director who oversees sensitive NHS investigations and inquiries, if some named and criticised LCH trust directors were not interviewed by Kirkup’s investigation because they refused to cooperate.

If they refused, this raises a question of why the government has been pursuing a non statutory inquiry into the Letby killings, when it has direct evidence from another serious NHS scandal that NHS directors failed to cooperate with a non statutory inquiry.

Surely the Chester families should not be put through the delay and distress caused to families in Essex, where fifteen months were lost because of inadequate witness cooperation with a non statutory inquiry?

“…a near total lack of co-operation from current and former NHS staff”

The full correspondence with Bill Kirkup and William Vineall can be found here:

Correspondence 21 to 23 August with Bill Kirkup and William Vineall re failures of witness cooperation in non statutory investigations

I have forwarded the correspondence to lawyers representing families of Letby’s victims and to Samantha Dixon MP for City of Chester, who alongside the families has called for a public inquiry.

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